Livestock farming in the loop in nitrogen advice Remkes

The Remkes committee is allowed to validate what the green guests would like.

Remkes has also already ended up in the canal belt, the scaling up will be even faster because the number of stoppers will increase, also wants to deliver less milk, but then the milk price must be € 0,50

And they can't make it more fun!!!!

Oh oh oh we are all outraged again.
For decades, ships full of feed ingredients have been coming from South America and more. We make shit out of it and we keep that in the Netherlands and we export meat. Oh yes, that is also true: I must not forget the deforestation there.
Anyone who thinks that such a system can remain has the level of a toddler.

Joost, your reaction is more like a toddler's level. First do some research on the subject you are talking about. It's so easy to judge when you have no idea what's really going on.
Dutch livestock farming is by far the most environmentally friendly in the world, we already process an enormous amount of nitrogen for export, we are already tied to the number of kg per ha. But yes, it just shrinks here and it comes back in those countries where they really have nothing to do with the environment (consumption does not change for the time being). And you know what's the worst? That this is now only on the agenda because construction threatens to come to a standstill... we have to be able to continue building, every day ha's of agricultural land disappear (nature that converts co2 into oxygen. And the people who go to live in those houses cause with their entire manufacturing-consumption pattern much more co2, and the transport movements to the logistics halls to be built for internet shops with their free return policy (how many vans daily through the streets) certainly also save co2???
How much butter can you have on your head????

@Joost, First of all, most of the grain is for human consumption and the by-products go to the animals. For example, a lot of soy oil is used for the artificial meat and what is left over we put in animal feed. But then I have an even bigger surprise for you. They want to build the largest alcohol factory in Europe on the Maasvlakte to mix with the E10 petrol. This factory is to make alcohol from corn imported from Brazil and the US. If the livestock is halved, the by-product (distillers grain) has to be returned to the truck to ???????. Then we are really good at dragging products back and forth.

special reaction josh. I would like to know if you are a livestock farmer yourself

Joost, there are too many of us, did you know that these are the consequences? It gets much worse, especially as veggies increase in number. Then even more forest has to be flattened for even more soy. And the scrap, oh no, we give that to the cattle. Oh, we chased them away with pitch and feathers, mistake!

the 'easiest' would lower his max speed. This can be done tomorrow and will not cost a cent, on the contrary. Totally agree with that good plan. Could have been much earlier, but the Vroemm party was in the way.
Livestock farming continues to shrink. whether that will be so easy remains to be seen. and who is going to pay for that? the green people out of their own pocket? They wouldn't mind if they had the money at all.

which is also easy: an immediate stop to the construction/opening of Lelystad airport. It's a dead duck anyway. Costs only speculative investors money.
It wouldn't surprise me if aviation is completely out of the question in Remkes' plans. As well as industry and the construction of even more asphalt.
Which makes the scientific basis of these plans and political/lobby preferences clear.
We (greens too) will fly anyway.
Food security at home has never been an issue for greens.

Of course , the Remkes committee had already been whispered in advance about what the advice should be . This is how it works in politics .

Will the nitrogen bomb explode next week?

In England, a study has shown that by 2038 the number of flight movements in the world will double.
if we cut agriculture in half all over the world, this problem will soon be solved

It's unbelievable how much you farmers can give and antisocial whine about something you've brought on yourself????
Want to produce more and more and cause a lot of emissions of nitrogen, ammonia, phosphate, etc. A real farmer does not have 500 cows or 10.000 pigs on a small plot. That is no longer a farm but a factory. A dirty factory that ruins people and the environment!
Then give it to people who want to have a healthy agriculture again or who stand up for nature or animal welfare.
Go continue your dirty practices abroad. You will also run into environmental requirements there in the long run.
My advice is to switch to organic farming and only produce for the local Dutch market. This provides farmers with a nice, safe income and makes the countryside more livable for people and nature.
Get rid of today's all destructive, exhausting, polluting farming system and on to truly SUSTAINABLE AGRICULTURE!!!!

Well said Joost. I see a lot of reactions here from frightened farmers who don't want to face the truth. The current form of agriculture in the Netherlands is no longer tenable. If you are not a land-based farmer, then in my opinion you are not a real farmer. The farmer of the past had far fewer animals and used deep litter manure to improve his own soil in a natural way. He or she could also earn a decent living.
By sinking yourself so deeply into debt (milking robots and mega stables and tractors of 100.000 euros) you will find yourself in a bind and then have to deliver mega production at rock-bottom prices. You nail down the entire agriculture in the Netherlands yourself.

@Maxwell. can farmers expect a sufficient income? If this is earned through organic farming, prices will rise significantly. So the consumer will pay considerably (obviously more than 100% extra) more. But within the EU, the supermarket will then buy the food abroad. Or did you want to close the borders? I wish you success with that.
Reading your rant like this, I think the media and politics are your main sources of information. It wouldn't surprise me if your urban area is the familiar biotope and you only perceive the countryside from behind a car window or from your bicycle.

Can you, with all your wisdom, also take a look at aviation? Or does that not look good?

Every desired change starts with yourself. Only buy Dutch products, produced by Dutch farmers. Stay in the Netherlands when you are on holiday. No more air travel. No veggie burgers from imported soy. The cause of the increase in scale among the farmers is due to the previous policy of the then governments. Manshold was a great supporter of large agricultural companies, so the whole thing has been turned upside down and many normal farms have been ground up in the urge to expand. To govern is to look ahead, don't blame the peasants, but ignorant management. A new conversion to circular agriculture will also kill many companies. Only with a new crisis, or worse, a new war, people realize how important food really is, but then it is too late for reflection.

Joost and Maxwell want to go back to the old days, when everything was better.
They think they can live on the tomato plant they have in their kitchen window.

Joost, did you know that the total Dutch import
per year of soybean for agriculture, which is 0,7% of the total global soybean production.
And that 95% of our soy imports come from North America?
So don't say everything, but first delve into the numbers.

Joost and Maxwell Agriculture has to go back to the past do you think you are also willing to go back to the past ???
No car no luxury at home no flying holiday s
Spending 70% of your income on food a wood stove no TV and so on
What you want is to sacrifice farming for your own luxury life .
I compare this situation with the 30s

Total idlers like Joost and Maxwell are our future apparently, luckily most of these empty heads are in Europe and they don't get on a plane to the US or Canada, there you can still be a wonderful farmer. And export to anywhere in the world.

@Maxwell
We complain according to you.. the so-called "mega stables" are more environmentally unfriendly according to you .... we are the cause of all misery according to you ....
Do you ever realize that we good citizens ourselves are the cause of all this?? Putting a big mouth on how it should be and meanwhile we fly around the world, we buy nice cheap food, we only want to work for 36 hours but we do have 2 cars in the driveway...
That ideal dream world you believe in does not exist, we are just too many to get it done. 2038 double the number of flight movements, shipping plus 35%, traffic.plus... you name it. Yes I would also clean up the cows and the pigs, that solves everything!
Thank your fellow citizen for your trust in a sector that is the ONLY one that achieves its climate goals!!

Joost and Maxwell live under a big rock literally and figuratively in the Stone Age.

The biggest problem on this earth is starting to be overpopulation. The club of Rome has already warned about this in the 60s what has been done with it exactly nothing at all, only China has made an attempt.

If we have to go back to the "Ot en Sien" era, I'm allowed to, but realize that food is many times more expensive and it is questionable whether there is anything to eat at all!!

Schiphol is then superfluous because distant holidays are no longer possible, you can be happy that you still have a roof over your head, after all, the largest part of the income (if you still have income, by the way) is spent on food

The government would be wise to open an emigration desk where all paperwork, etc., including a generous severance package, is arranged.

Coughing all day yesterday because they had to burn the reeds in the weather ribs, why such wonderful nature.

It is hoped that external netting will become possible. Let the other sectors clean up livestock farming warmly. There are plenty who want to stop. As long as it is well paid. € 500,- per kg to start with...

It's five to twelve they say, activists, politicians, leftists, greens and whatever you want to call them all. I want to help them out of the dream, it is long past twelve, yes far past....

Everyone is whining about something and I admit they are all right somewhere, but... it's about total solutions. And they no longer exist, because everything is intertwined.

Look at our economic system, which can only survive by being manipulated. Negative interest, and buying up debt, who would have thought it could get this far. If the stock market falls, we will just make the interest rate even more negative.....

It is the same in agriculture, the agricultural information service is part of the government, forced farmers in the 50s, also with subsidies, to grow bigger and to spread more fertilizer 1000 kg. per hectare. Agriculture has become so large, so complex that it no longer works without manipulation.

Even with consumption, there is no going back, saying that the supermarkets are no longer allowed to give out a plastic bag is really not a solution.... The total waste that people produce will also cost us our heads. This is also manipulated by sending it to another country or simply throwing it (India, for example) into the sea.

Then there are also the internet companies, the internationals and the supermarkets that transport goods all over the world, by boats, with very harmful, contaminated oil. Why do you have to sell Italian kiwis and vice versa in the supermarkets in New Zealand?

The climate is also manipulated. It plays on people's fears. Then they take everything, look at 9/11. Freedom is restricted, investments are pushed through. This also applies to the windmill industry and solar energy parks in the Netherlands.

There is absolutely no long-term vision in politics. Everything is still based on growth. Now that the nitrogen story is added again, they quickly need a short-term solution .... Yes and then you soon come back to a completely divided sector that is the easiest to tackle.....

There are no more total solutions in our democracy, we've given them the wrong meaning: we're run by minorities and activists… and we've all become very politically correct.
We'll have another lawyer shoot that cry-weep and next week we'll forget it again, just like with Pim.
Wilders, while everyone has to agree with him, we've been chasing him through a process for 5 years, with security guards, otherwise he will also be shot.
Back in the day, the good old days, when everything was still so beautiful...

where should this go????

Ton Westgeest: you have expressed that really well, I share your opinion. You see through the game, there are very few. The people with the most sense and people who are at home in all markets are the farmers. Unfortunately, none of these remain in our country.

If all the subsidy that now goes to the farmers would go to organic farming to get their products in the shops cheaper than the traditional products, the farmers would switch automatically. Except of course the real stupid farmers.

josh,
Please read all the above messages first, then you would have known that biological really is not the solution to the problem. But yes, it "sounds" so well, doesn't it. I give everyone his thing and if you like to eat organic I think that's no problem but don't tell here that organic is the solution because that is really nonsense.

Oh yes, and calling the conventional farmers just stupid farmers shows disrespect and total ignorance. We are available 24/7 for the safest and most environmentally friendly food in the world.... thank you for your compliment!

May I ask what rock you come from?

If 1 sector is subsidized, it is the organic one with all kinds of tax and interest benefits!!

As far as I'm concerned, they will just stop providing subsidies tomorrow and that the entire agricultural sector should hold up its own pants, but then about all agriculture in the world. I dare to pick up the hatchet.

What is forgotten in the story is that we already indirectly pay many different taxes, such as excise duty on fuel, insurance tax, etc.
Not to mention numerous checks by different organizations that cost a lot but yield nothing.

it's time for them to wake up in the hague
70% of farmers have no successor
agricultural schools are empty
and those who do become farmers go abroad

now consumers spend 7 percent of their income on food
that then goes to the 25%
then we have a new crisis
stop bullying farmers
you should be begging them to stay here
but in the hague they always put the cart before the horse

We are going to take action on 1 October: that will not work. There is only 1 option: all shelves are empty, there may not be anything left that has its origin in agriculture. Yes, it costs us money, but continuing like this costs more money. So everything that produces goes to export and ignores the Netherlands. ungrateful conceited people

That Jos doesn't even know what organic farming is, has never even worked in agriculture let alone looked at a farm, spouting selfish gossip which is often caused by a very small world view, he can blame himself because sir has never looked abroad, that the world is bigger than his town or city. There are many people today who think they have learned a lot but unfortunately have not seen anything of the world, but who do say that their world view is the only correct one.

hi Jos,

In your message you argue that the "agricultural subsidies" should only go to organic companies and therefore allow more (stupid) farmers to switch to organic.

But now the question, if you cut the cake for 4 or 10 people on your birthday, are the portions the same?

So if all farmers switch to organic for the subsidy, it only changes that the "dumb farmer" gets higher costs and lower yields, but still the same low price.

After Wednesday, the rights are worth half the money.

Does the last farmer in the Netherlands want to turn off the light...

that's how it is!

Unfortunately true, the action on October 1 will not change the outcome anymore, it was already used by politicians years ago and is now coming to its full effect.

what a mentality many farmers have. First apply economies of scale, increase production and therefore more pollution and collect subsidies for that, and now they want to remediate and generate subsidies for that too. That is what the revenue model is based on. You have to farm where there is room. That is not in the Netherlands, much too small and densely populated country. Come join us in Poland. We have a lot of land, never received subsidies (do you have backbone or not), and use relatively little fertilizer and fodder; why does everything have to grow so fast? I miss balls at Kjol cs, take your responsibility guys. In German they speak of fearful hares.

Let's go back to 1990 with our emissions
There for Co2, nitrogen minus 20% for all sectors including Schiphol because that is the biggest crook now, according to Vollenbroek.
Then I think everything is solved .
So agriculture plus 10%
Schiphol minus 20%
Cars west of utrecht max 90 km hours
No air travel less than 500 km.
And tax kerosene in Europe, just like diesel.
Then all problems are solved.
People much healthier afterwards in the west.
Shoot these ideas.

This Joost will not be fooled. This Joost has no stories about being dragged with cattle feed from abroad and the consequences of this in the production countries (deforestation). to make for other sectors??? Joost is sure that there is no driver in this country who will allow that. Behind these prick campaigns by certain people, something will soon come out for certain sectors, but we will see that again in due course. Don't worry too much now, Joost seems the most sensible !!!

@Marie, that Poland has never had a subsidy.... I doubled up laughing for an hour. Poland's biggest subsidy-guzzler, dear Marie!

Remkes was able to add a nice amount again, but the outcome had been fixed for a long time had already been whispered in advance, the farmers must be broken here I was just across the border in Germany yesterday there a large cattle farmer had already put the stakes in the ground for a new one young stock, was not bothered by anything and laughs at those stupid Dutchmen, he thinks. How such an EU.

instead of howl about measures, farmers would be better off worrying about normal prices in the middlemen. Often the farmers do not even know for what price they are producing! that's ridiculous. More expensive food in the supermarket? no problem if all subsidies are abolished. Then you as a citizen can at least help determine what happens. If you only buy organic food and meat from non-tortured animals, you as a citizen still have to pay for the production of export meat that pollutes our country, so you are also in the mess of those practices

Halve farmers? Fine, but then also the car fleet and the flight movements. Strange, I suddenly hear a voice that that will never happen. Oh, yes I also forget that there are 2 million foreigners to get out. Why, yes, that's what I thought, just like those officials also had a scary dream. When will we be deported? Because that will be the next step.

What rock have you been under Helena... animals that are bred as organic also live in partly stables and are also slaughtered. And in conventional animal husbandry they are tortured according to you...
Now think carefully, half way here in the most modern and animal-friendly livestock farming (I don't know any country where there is a ban on animal transport at certain temperatures) and then in those countries where they don't want to rebuild the business. And I'll give you a note; that meat ends up in the shops right here because yes, we remain frugal Dutchmen.

if you can't go on strike, support us financially at agractie.nl

Which I don't hear anyone about! we fly loads of fruit and vegetables into our country so that we can enjoy fresh asparagus from peru around christmas beans from rwanda go on and on and AH yells that the consumer is asking for it ! Nonsense of course
And Max will soon be tearing through Zandvoort. And our holiday has to go even further because it only stops when you've been at Balie. Let's drive the farmers away, then in other countries animals are kept in even more scandalous ways, but what you don't see ........

A filthy left-wing hypocritical bastard it is certainly in the Netherlands. Some people are hardly worth the air in their lungs, not to mention our precious healthy food..

Don't know what your profession is, but Eastern European agriculture has the same income support as in NL.
In the past, there were also huge subsidies from the eu on machines, up to 50% of the purchase value. As a good pool would double gross price and the machine on the farm for free.

You are free to apply for subsidies. We have not done that: on principle. Subsidies are not good for mentality, entrepreneurship and independence. We farmers, must be able to hold our own pants. Providing subsidies to farmers is just as disastrous as development work; bureaucracy, glue stick and 'greenhouse plant' mentality. Farmer unworthy, then stop or go abroad.

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/drafts/jan-ouvry/75-jaar-geleden-market-garden-mislukt-het-begin-van-de-hongerw/

You are an unworldly person Marie, all branches of the economy are subsidized in one way or another, the government does that consciously in order to be able to steer, even if you do not ask for a subsidy you are part of the system even if you know it yourself maybe not.

exactly, Remkes committee and who is on it? Hester May. And where will Mrs. Maij be working? Right at FC!!!

I see many advantages:
Farmers who want to (have to) stop are being remediated warmly by the government, because they need nitrogen from farmers and the rest gets more space, less manure (transport) so lower costs and higher yields for the products (earning more)
The animal feed industry will have problems

And where has the Rabobank gone? during the phosphate rights they were fully present to save their own finances. And now they are abandoning their loyal customers (farmers) as usual!!!!!!

The Rabobank gets newly printed money for free from the ECB, they don't know where to put it.
There is currently too much money in the wrong places.

Joost you hit the nail on the head, the hole in Rotterdam as we called it 25 years ago is the cause of the manure problem that affects us arable farmers. The only advantage for us is cheap manure. Furthermore, unnecessary rules and wheat that is too cheap.

What kind of world do you live in: you are unworldly if you do not apply for a subsidy. That's the world upside down. Your revenue model has no future.

The revenue model should assume that the products yielded a decent price, but because our government sets so many nonsensical requirements for the product, it can never be released from the market, so only if the regulator is willing to pay for it will we have a future here

I have said it before, the Netherlands as a very small country is the 2nd exporter of agricultural products and that is untenable in my opinion.

Certainly a hobby farm in Poland, or free arable land to which no rights have been held.

But no payment entitlements is probably no problem for applying for field grants in Poland.

Moreover, in the past, the premiums were granted to compensate for the fall in the wheat price. So that livestock farming and people were cheap and sure of feed

Yes, it is not easy, isn't it, to see how the large-scale factory farms (with poor animal welfare, barn fires, huge manure surpluses, air pollution, soil depletion, soil pollution, etc.) are FINALLY brought to a halt.
Apparently a tough legal ruling and ban is the only means that works to save the diseased Dutch agriculture.
It is clear that many of you so-called farmers have no respect at all for your own farmland and surrounding nature. You don't pollute your own house, do you???
All those dangerous toxins, hormones and fertilizers eventually ruin your own soil. Don't you watch news programs (anyone seen Zembla here??! Agricultural poisons are certainly the cause of many diseases such as Parkinson's etc. Farmers and citizens get sick from all that used junk.
Become a real farmer and be respectful of the land and nature.

And no, I am not advocating going back to the past (hunger, poverty, etc.) but switching to a truly sustainable agriculture because this is ABSOLUTELY NOT it now!!
You need to face the truth. Read more scientific reports about current and organic sustainable agriculture and you will really understand what the current polluting agriculture really is like.
No organic sustainable agriculture is not goat wool socks but the true farmer's life and certainly capable of feeding many billions. I'll be posting some web links to scientific reports shortly so you too can wake up and stop spouting all this nonsense.

Closing comments
What is the big deal here on anything left-wing, green or environmentally conscious? If you don't like the real truth, don't go looking for a scapegoat.
Unbelievable...How you blame everyone for your own miserable situation except yourself. Put your hand in your own bosom.

Oh and I have an agricultural education myself, eat a nice steak now and then (organic of course) cycle and drive a small car now and then. I no longer fly but mainly travel through Europe by train ... wonderful.
I'm not a rich stinker either, but make conscious consumer choices

@akkerbouw 2.0 you are suggesting a lot; unworthy of a farmer. Farmers who are on the subsidy tit are subsidy addicted and cannot stand on their own two feet. Sad, but they have no future. Unfortunately. A different attitude is really needed: 3.0

Maxwel: The point is that the farmers are always blamed. I heard a pipo on TV say that we are also guilty of the oak processionary caterpillar. Something with great tits or something. Yes, my pants will fall off. Every summer I have at least 20 nests with swallows in the barn, each with at least 2 clutches. Superb, and they are very healthy. I'd rather give up, but then also reduce the car fleet and flight movements. Only this will never happen. Incidentally, at the time, the robbers designated many more natural areas than had been estimated by Brussels. So a huge blunder. Furthermore, our neighboring countries have a much less strict standard than the Netherlands. We must again be more Catholic than the Pope. In the other countries we are laughed at for so much sewing that we do to ourselves. So equal monks, equal hoods. By the way, I'd like to stop only for an exceptionally good fee. I will then continue farming in Germany. The government says there is plenty of money in The Hague. They don't know how crazy they are. So it is also a welfare problem, things are going too well in the Netherlands.........

Maxwell, save yourself the trouble of posting scientific reports.
I can send you 10 conflicting copies.
A report must always have the content that suits the payer, or have you never completed your studies?
Everyone knows that something has to be done in this world, in this whole discussion people just point the index finger at the other person, they have to solve it!
understand that you are pointing at yourself with 4 fingers!!
In a country where only economic growth and prosperity are considered, we will never solve the environmental problem.
I am not a farmer myself, but I find it very strange that the whole world sees the Dutch farmer as a great example for his craftsmanship, he is being killed by politics in his own country.
I often think that the people who can really do something are in business, if you fail there, you can always go into politics.
I can't imagine that agriculture has to shrink to allow Schiphol to grow.
Then, in my view, politics is only populism, and nothing else.

The worst thing is that I do live in a fake world, reality doesn't matter, but who's the nicest, that's why all we need is war, I'm not happy with it, but it can't be the way it is now , so especially on 1-10 don't hold back too much, you have nothing to lose

That's how it is Hans, there will soon be nitrogen rights. If Max wants to tear in the dunes, you just buy the nitrogen rights from two farmers and Max can tear.
Houses are building away a hundred farmers..... an airport and a few more.

We'll solve the problem again. Without looking ahead(ruling).
Look what's happening around you, 8000 people can't get medicine right now because we are totally dependent on whether India will or can make it. Whether China can/will supply the raw materials.

That is the case with energy, with medicines, etc. We no longer have a manufacturing industry at all thanks to politics. The stupid short-sighted people, whom we have as representatives in the room, are mainly there for themselves.

As a result, we will probably also be without eating.....

pffff you really stick your head in the sand, the shops are full of rubbish from abroad and we have to do things differently?

mean Maxwell

As strange as it may sound, being a farmer myself, I can understand Joost and Maxwell. Something will have to slow down, especially dairy farming. Growers have 1 thought and that is even more milk in the tank, that gives power in the long run. Once there, they realize that reality has caught up with them and they have to do more. Dairy farms used to be clusters with a manure plate. Now, what's left is jam-packed with built blocks. Sorry to say it, but something's going to have to slow them down. Or not then?

I see that a few frustratos have reacted to my statement that the import of all that much too cheap animal feed from all kinds of parts of the world is the root of the problems.
We make shit from that feed here and as a by-product we export the meat for a much too low dump price to countries where we are kicked out of the market because their cost price is higher. They are not heavily subsidized.
We throw the shit on the land here until the nitrogen flows into the ditch via the drains.
And complain that we are so pathetic.
1. Ban imports of soy, corn, tapioca and so on
2. Only fertilize according to the needs of the crop.
3. Stop all those damn subsidies
Come on guys. I'm crazy and not a farmer and I don't get it. Congratulations, I am a farmer, I understand it perfectly and certainly do not go to The Hague with a tractor to shake off my frustrations in 1 or 2 days.

who sounds frustrated?

With all due respect Joost, you are a farmer yourself and write sentences like "until it runs out through the drains"
It's good to think before you write something. "until the nitrogen runs into the ditch via drains" nounou..
And I agree with you that fertilizing what the crop requires, most farmers already do that, fertilizer is really not for nothing, and we are animal-bound. And those subsidies may also go away from me, only your story is not entirely correct, we still receive the least subsidy compared to the countries where our most meat goes.... it is not in the subsidy but in entrepreneurship and that is possible don't blame anyone!

Joost is not a farmer

The best farmers can be found in the canal belt. They know exactly how to do it.

1 thing I agree with you. Immediately abolish all subsidies, but then worldwide. Think of the transport subsidies on the railway un Canada. No more subsidized transport to the seaports for Russia either.

I am convinced that Dutch agriculture will easily win the competition with Eastern Europe. Especially if the climate is getting warmer.

Eastern Europe will also have to comply with the same food safety rules, of course.

Without the premiums in the east, most large companies will immediately collapse or be bought by big industrialists or the Chinese.

Just look at KTG agrar, black earth farming, Etc etc. The more surface area, the smaller the margins per hectare

Just one more time for Joost..
It's five to twelve they say, activists, politicians, leftists, greens and whatever you want to call them all. I want to help them out of the dream, it is long past twelve, yes far past....

Everyone is whining about something and I admit they are all right somewhere, but... it's about total solutions. And they no longer exist, because everything is intertwined.

Look at our economic system, which can only survive by being manipulated. Negative interest, and buying up debt, who would have thought it could get this far. If the stock market falls, we will just make the interest rate even more negative.....

It is the same in agriculture, the agricultural information service is part of the government, forced farmers in the 50s, also with subsidies, to grow bigger and to spread more fertilizer 1000 kg. per hectare. Agriculture has become so large, so complex that it no longer works without manipulation.

Even with consumption, there is no going back, saying that the supermarkets are no longer allowed to give out a plastic bag is really not a solution.... The total waste that people produce will also cost us our heads. This is also manipulated by sending it to another country or simply throwing it (India, for example) into the sea.

Then there are also the internet companies, the internationals and the supermarkets that transport goods all over the world, by boats, with very harmful, contaminated oil. Why do you have to sell Italian kiwis and vice versa in the supermarkets in New Zealand?

The climate is also manipulated. It plays on people's fears. Then they take everything, look at 9/11. Freedom is restricted, investments are pushed through. This also applies to the windmill industry and solar energy parks in the Netherlands.

There is absolutely no long-term vision in politics. Everything is still based on growth. Now that the nitrogen story is added again, they quickly need a short-term solution .... Yes and then you soon come back to a completely divided sector that is the easiest to tackle.....

There are no more total solutions in our democracy, we've given them the wrong meaning: we're run by minorities and activists… and we've all become very politically correct.
We'll have another lawyer shoot that cry-weep and next week we'll forget it again, just like with Pim.
Wilders, while everyone has to agree with him, we've been chasing him through a process for 5 years, with security guards, otherwise he will also be shot.
Back in the day, the good old days, when everything was still so beautiful...

Ton, growth is a necessary evil because a certain
population group has come up with paying interest on loans.

When more and more has to come back than has been borrowed, and that with the same euro, dollar, .... up to 10x, then you know that society loses that race to the bottom.

People are afraid of the demons in hell, unnecessarily, because those demons live on Earth.

Hans I have been wondering all my life, why is there no think tank to invent an economy other than the growth economy.
A growth economy is only good until the pinnacle of prosperity is reached. (unfairly distributed)

I think we are almost at that point ..... You see that the whole world reacts spastic, In a capitalist system (banking crisis) are now working with socialist solutions. (takeover by state)
The financial world can only run through manipulation... and negative interest to keep the system running.

So what next?? There is no think tank...

Ton, 95% of humanity just wants to live peacefully together. The last thing they want is conflict with others.

4.9999% of people are the pushers, the ambitious, people who only want more, also on the backs of others. They only see people who have more than themselves and want to achieve this.

0.0001 of people already have an incredible amount, and because of their money, so power, so influence they always win.

The latter use the middle ones to keep the former underneath, do all the work and pluck bare.

The former give their power to the middle ones, who, however, only look after themselves to try to get to the latter group.

There are certainly examples of societies where growth was or is not the goal, but the average citizen does not hear about that. Now, with globalization, say the military domination of NATO countries in much of the world, with the attendant boycotts and embargoes, with an IMF dictating world money flows, is a different system than the growth system almost impossible.

As long as the largest 95% group does not take control themselves in "the free west", which actually goes against their own self, nothing will change, and the whole world will be stripped.
Because don't think that you are worth more to that ruling elite than that poor Afghan, Iraqi or Syrian, killed or the entire family slaughtered after a "legal" raid by "the west" related to alleged terrorists (but where the oil and gas interests do accidentally pushed the elites into a corner).

Fortunately, after a few days, people react more thoughtfully to each other. The powerlessness radiates from it in general...
The solution that rolls out....will go more in the direction of being right, than in the direction of being right. Think about that again.

HansO.

22

Let the interest rise immediately, the crazy prices for land are finally over.

Kjol, I don't think we're going to have an old-fashioned civil war anymore, we just can't.... North against South, East against West. Everything is mixed, population and religion just like the financial interests.

It is and it will never be the way it used to be. Historically speaking? negative interest rates, I do know about rates of 24% only recently in Turkey. But negative interest rates.... I think we're going to have a financial crisis with a receipt of the whole system and then anarchy. I can already see it rearing its head.

Thanks to politics.

A financial melt-down, where all credits, pensions, are gone, but the debts remain and are sold on.

After that, a military conflict "will arise", in which more than 3/4 of the European population will be victims, superfluous rebellious people.

You know your history, and you know the future.

The yellow vests see it, on Saturday +/- 50.000 people in Paris on their feet, only such a movement can turn the tide. But the European MSM is silent, other countries are already giving the pipe to Maarten, and we, we, we are busy making life miserable for each other. Divide and conquer.

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Joost and Akker Zuid well said. You take the bull by the horns and say exactly how it is. I totally agree with your opinion/statement. Long live the REAL FARMER (who treats his animals, nature and his own soil with respect)

Just want to be very brief .. and then also without a single response.
It is up to the reader to make his own judgment.
Has read Remkes ' report . Agriculture is responsible for 46% of the nitrogen!! That's quite something.
But how much is the traffic responsible for and the industry { according to the report] Don't be alarmed!! traffic for 6% and industry for 1% In summary, agriculture pollutes 7 times as much as traffic and industry combined? You can make the judgment yourself.
The credibility of these figures tells me enough about the truthfulness of them

Kees,

What percentage of this nitrogen does agriculture use directly to grow crops? (cycle) how big is the share then? And how much do these crops convert? (photosynthesis)
I miss that in the whole story, it's just too simplistic reasoning...

I have just read with great surprise the first three positions (requirements!) on the website of Agractie.nl regarding the planned farmers' demonstration on 1 October.

1) We do not want any forced further reduction of the livestock.
2) Strictly independent measurements of CO2 and nitrogen by an independent party that is supported and accepted by the entire sector. No calculation tools.
3) We want the policy on plant protection products to be based on scientific facts. Not on assumptions and emotion. And that clarity about this comes to the citizen.

This just goes to show that the farmers who are now screaming bloody murder simply don't want to accept the truth of concrete facts. They also deny what is wrong with Dutch agriculture. Pure ostrich behavior of farmers Mark van den Oever of Farmers Defense Force. Putting all the blame on others...the citizen, government and 'activists' BUT ABSOLUTELY DON'T LOOK AND QUESTION AT YOURSELF AS A FARMER... MAYBE I AM DOING SOMETHING WRONG MYSELF??
All scientific research is wrong and the poor farmer is put in a bad light. It has been proven that more people in rural areas have Parkinson's disease (scientifically linked to pesticides) and yet continue to claim that conventional farmers are very environmentally conscious!!!
unbelievable.
The real farmers are organic farmers who work REALLY sustainably.
Other farmers should demonstrate in The Hague on October 1 and embarrass yourself even more. Just show with your demonstration that you are again only standing up for your own interest...and not for people or the environment or for developing a REALLY SUSTAINABLE VISIBLE AGRICULTURE!!
Good luck with your own fanatic decline

Oh and don't forget... you reap what you sow!

Oh and I certainly have all respect for good farmers who respect real sustainable agriculture but not for those who destroy the farmland

I do believe that the government is also much to blame for its ailing agricultural policy. That she even applied the PAS measures or let go of the milk quota again is a mystery to me. Don't let go of the fact that as a farmer and entrepreneur you shouldn't let go of your common sense and just follow bad policy? The fact that a stupid admissions committee of pesticides allows poisonous junk for use in agriculture does not mean that you as a farmer should also use that dangerous junk on your own land. Where is the former common sense?????

In BD agriculture plenty of copper put in under the guise of foliar nutrition !!!!!nice and healthy working those at your farmers.

@maxwell, it's more about what's in the supermarket to meet the same requirements as we have to grow it for here. Prohibiting resources here while they can simply be used and imported abroad, that annoys most, and not ban because a certain group that is against conventional agriculture and thinks so, so on the basis of what the admissions committee thinks, allow the resources .

@maxwel if you want to improve the country you have to go to the chemical concerns, because what they are allowed to produce can be used by law!!

@maxwell
take a look in your kitchen cupboard, or in the bathroom and then study all the labels of everything that goes down the drain every day... and add all the medicines to that...
Everything we use is just as "toxic" (if you want to call it that) as what you create yourself.
Please stick to the facts ... that's what someone with common sense does.

Oh yes, DSM in Geleen is requesting a new permit (extension) for 650!! to be allowed to discharge harmful substances into the Meuse, just before drinking water intake point... and I can tell you that that permit is coming....

Yes jp I'm also afraid so, if you saw Zembla last time and you can't find anything that something is happening, for example in the second room, then you will see that we can no longer be saved.

It strikes me that you do not hear anything from the environmentalists and the activists. No they take the farmers, easy group .....

Oh dear people. I wonder why so many farmers keep standing up for the continued use of very dangerous and toxic substances in agriculture. You don't believe the facts or something? In your opinion (proponents of artificial interventions such as chemical pesticides and fertilizers) are there no health and environmental problems caused by all that rubbish that is scattered on the land?
The many sick people near poison farmers (Parkinson's, cancer, etc.) are already scientifically linked to poison use. The massive bird and insect deaths also. Soil pollution and degradation.
Do you still deny that?? That's what it looks like here. Very unfortunate that hard facts are not accepted.
Mark my words...there will be a ban on all kinds of dangerous toxic pesticides, the livestock will be at least halved and fertilizers are falling out of favor.
In contrast, agriculture based on an ecological basis will flourish, i.e. the biological (agroecological)
Agriculture.
For more information, see the website www.boerengroep.nl/themas/agroecologie/

Good luck and really make Dutch agriculture more sustainable.
PS we also have to let go of the idea that the Netherlands should feed the world. That is nonsense because we are just a small frog country. Feed your own population and do it completely ecologically and get a fair price for it (the consumer will indeed just have to do that .... pay a better price for non-toxic healthy food locally produced!!!
Hurrah!!

Maxwell, watch the cesspool Netherlands on you tube. Check out the latest Zembla broadcast.
Then you know that everything comes from the government.....
The rush to increase in scale, the admission requirements for pesticides, the urge to spread more fertiliser.
Think for a moment... and look after the Zembla broadcasts why it remains so quiet in politics and the room.!

Increase in scale becomes necessary if your company does not offer a future for a successor. The successor must also be able to earn a living

I notice that a discussion on "your farmers forum" is absolutely useless. If something is brought up that you do not like, the plurus break loose. Or are pieces of text removed??
I'm giving up on you conventional intensive poison farmers. So convinced of your own right.
Fine. Keep it up..... And suffocate in your nitrogen, sink into your shit (mountain) and especially continue to spray your holy poisonous pesticides. Just hope that you don't get too much cancer, Parkinson's and other poison related diseases (or your family)
Too bad to hear that blind faith in a totally wrong and self-destructive agricultural system.
Mark my words that following and persevering is a dead end for the farmer...(literally and figuratively)
I actually have mixed feelings about you common intensive poison farmers. I hate your stupidity but feel sorry for you ruining your own lives and opportunities.

It seems a bit like Maxwell also has a certain conviction, but I fully support Hannes' idea

His business will consist solely of applying for and receiving benefits
That's why he has so much time from this business to spit his dirt

@maxwell you go fight the import. If you succeed, then the unfair competition is eliminated. After all, much more can be sprayed abroad.

However, I fear that due to organic cultivation and the advancement of asphalt and housing, there will not be enough to consume in NL.

But you probably don't care, because everything comes from the supermarket