NMI

Interview Gerard Ros (WUR)

'Government nitrogen targets punishment, but doable'

21 April 2023 - Klaas van der Horst - 37 comments

Significantly limit emissions: halving ammonia by 2030 or 2035, greenhouse gas by 2050, and nitrate in groundwater must soon fall below 50 milligrams per litre. These are goals about which there is still considerable political discussion, but which the cabinet wants to keep agriculture to. For individual farms, these are goals that are often far from their goals and that are often seen as unattainable in advance. This is the case for some companies. They will stop, but another part can indeed meet the strict goals.

This is the opinion of Wageningen researchers Gerard Ros (photo), Wim de Vries, Roel Jongeneel and Martin van Ittersum. They wrote a vision paper that follows on from an essay that was published last week, commissioned by Minister for Nature and Nitrogen Christianne van der Wal. They also developed a method on how to achieve those goals. According to Gerard Ros, with which Boerenbusiness this can be done on the basis of targets for (key performance) indicators per company for the emission of ammonia and greenhouse gases and the permissible nitrogen soil surplus. Each farmer can control how these are realized.

Shouldn't companies have to register a lot of extra data for this?
"Most of the numbers for dairy farming are already in the KringloopWijzer, so that's not too bad. The method currently uses fixed values ​​based on known company data. When the phosphate legislation had to be complied with in 2018, that was technically not very difficult. It was arranged in two years. Now the task is bigger. A livestock farm has to work towards 20 to 25 kilos of ammonia per hectare and 0,05 to 0,5 kilos of ammonia per chicken or calf. These targets can be increased, however if stricter standards are introduced within a radius of 500 to 1.000 meters around sensitive nature. The maximum soil surplus for nitrogen may vary from 50 to 125 kilograms per hectare. In addition, there are maximums of 9 kilograms of nitrous oxide and 150 kilograms of methane per hectare. the permissible emission express 3 to 12 kilograms of methane for pigs and veal calves."

These are company-by-company standards, but it probably doesn't make sense for companies to start striving for them on their own, right?
"Certainly. These permissible emissions apply to every company in order to achieve the national target. The condition is that everyone meets them, otherwise it won't work. We therefore propose an emission allowance system that decreases to the target, where you are rewarded for a higher reduction and pays for a lower If the buy-out of peak loaders continues, the task for the rest of the companies will become less onerous.

You argue for a national approach, but isn't it almost inevitable that regional differences and per type of business are taken into account?
"Our approach takes this into account because the permissible standards vary per soil type, land use and groundwater level for the nitrogen soil surplus. The specifications for ammonia and greenhouse gases are related to land use and animal intensity per province. However, there is discussion about what to do with matters such as latent space and area-oriented interpretation around Natura 2000 areas, but that is something that must be decided by politicians."

From a technical point of view, companies should be able to make the desired transition, you say, because the basis lies mainly through the Kringloopwijzer, but financially and economically it will be quite a job. How do you do that?
"A budget of €25 billion is available from the government for the transition phase. The whole of Dutch agriculture is moving towards more extensive production. The integrated approach in our approach prevents agriculture from having to get back to work in a few years. it is important that everyone participates in order to make the desired transition possible: farmer, bank, government and citizen. The stoppers must be able to stop, the stayers must be able to continue. The desired more sustainable production must then be profitable, can provide a good income, supplemented with, for example, income from nature and landscape management. You could think of something like a landscape tax for this."

Please return to the integral. Not everything is arranged in your system for all assignments, right?
"The requirements for soil and surface water are not included in the intended standardization and pricing system, but they are not necessary. Targets for this can be implemented using existing instruments such as Agricultural Nature and Landscape Management, the Open Soil Index and the Business Soil Water Plan. That is therefore realizable."

I understand that there are still several open ends to be closed for the phase after the transition, the desired new normal. For example, your fellow researchers have calculated the necessary income supplements from nature and landscape management and have determined that more subsidy is needed than Brussels currently allows.
"There is a bottleneck there, but I understand that there is good hope that Brussels wants to offer more space. We are making various proposals on how this can be achieved, such as a landscape tax for every citizen."

In addition, there is an issue to be resolved with regard to the financeability of companies. Banks maintain a lower value for land.
"The valuation of landscape land needs to be looked at closely. We note that the long obscurity surrounding landscape land is in fact paralyzing. As a result, a potentially powerful policy instrument now seems to be discredited even before it has actually been used. But we have tool really needed."

Due to the Basel-4 agreements, banks must value all agricultural land 30% lower. That also poses a big problem.
"This needs to be looked at further. More important than the value, or solvency, is often liquidity, or future earning capacity. We provide an analysis along which tracks such a revenue model can be realized, pointing out both new sustainability initiatives via the market as well as through policy. What we emphasize is that the farm structure must receive sufficient attention in the transition process. Farms must be able to grow larger, at least measured in hectares, less or not at all in animals. This way they will also become more extensive. We think that there will be perspective is to be a farmer in a good and financeable way. In fact, a large number of companies elsewhere in the EU have been working this way for years."

With fewer emissions, less manure is allowed on the ground. Then production can drop considerably.
"We don't see the biggest problems for arable farming because there will be no additional restrictions on the usage standards. With our goals you can still supply 170 kilos of nitrogen from animal manure. It is not said that you can keep all crops afloat in every province, due to limitations due to the permissible nitrogen surplus. The biggest changes will take place in livestock farming. Production will drop the most there, but the aim is to achieve further extensification and sustainability."

Do you have a tip, suggestion or comment regarding this article? Let us know

Klaas van der Horst

Klaas van der Horst is a passionate follower of the dairy market and everything related to it. He searches for the news and interprets the developments.
Comments
37 comments
Subscriber
Dre 21 April 2023
This is in response to it Boerenbusiness article:
[url = https: // www.boerenbusiness.nl/artikel/10903885/stikstofdoelen-government-straf-maar-to-doen]'Government nitrogen targets punishable, but doable'[/url]
Van der wal hires many parties to investigate everything she should first find a solution for the pass detectors in my opinion she is in the wrong seat
Subscriber
sefO 21 April 2023
If it is up to those nitwits from Wageningen, anything is possible, this club of crooks is developing a system that completely eliminates agricultural entrepreneurship and farmers become slaves of the government who at the end of the year have to stand with their hands open and watch whether the government has anything left for you.
Wageningen was once the pride of Dutch agriculture.
Nowadays the slogan is "Wageningen destroys more than you love"
Wageningen as the most important advisor to the completely ignorant Ministry of Agriculture has made a huge mess of it !!
Subscriber
grey hairs 21 April 2023
let the government itself run a farm with all their fantasies applied to it, we can calmly see what mess that produces and if not we can perhaps learn something from it
Subscriber
Jan4072 21 April 2023
We can already start stopping the arable injector. If you bring the manure under the root system, you can be sure that it will wash out.
Subscriber
Louis Pascal deGeer 21 April 2023
I always think of what NASA has discovered about the "fertilization" that fine phosphorus-rich sand grains transport by air from the Sahara desert over 5000 km to the Amazon region, which mainly needs phosphorus.
Nature is creative in compensating for local shortages and surpluses and also shows very clearly that this movement cannot be modeled very well. We have to learn from Nature especially when it comes to offsets, and unfortunately I miss this point a lot in the above article.
I would also ask whether the positive influence of the current emissions and precipitation on the Nature Reserves is properly investigated. You can only protect Nature if you can understand Her. Everything is back on track in my opinion.
Subscriber
Dre 21 April 2023
Van der wal hires many parties to investigate everything she should first find a solution for the pass detectors in my opinion she is in the wrong seat
Subscriber
quite coarse 21 April 2023
Dre wrote:
Van der wal hires many parties to investigate everything she should first find a solution for the pass detectors in my opinion she is in the wrong seat
Must be on an electric chair.
Subscriber
Louis Pascal deGeer 21 April 2023
How can you make nature areas "productive", especially the heaths and peat soils?
A nice assignment for Wageningen and Boskoop I think.
Subscriber
Zeeuw 22 April 2023
Gerard's conclusion is partly correct! What he leaves out is what income is still available in the sector. The Initiator model is still a model and far from complete for individual companies. It's a macro pressure cooker for policy mitigation. What can a dairy farmer in a 500-metre zone next to Natura2000 earn in terms of income in his extensive farm and what part in landscape/nature management. Can he earn the 10 € / hour rate there with the approval of Frans Timmermans , took care of himself for 250 € / hour.
Subscriber
Gerben 22 April 2023
Reducing 5-10% less concentrate proteins leads to considerably less ammonia. Milk production will not decrease as a result, because you then have to deal with the economic law of diminishing returns. A little more or less protein adds nothing, because we are already at the maximum or even over it. We can then save costs.
Subscriber
Bio + 22 April 2023
SjefO wrote:
If it is up to those nitwits from Wageningen, anything is possible, this club of crooks is developing a system that completely eliminates agricultural entrepreneurship and farmers become slaves of the government who at the end of the year have to stand with their hands open and watch whether the government has anything left for you.
Wageningen was once the pride of Dutch agriculture.
Nowadays the slogan is "Wageningen destroys more than you love"
Wageningen as the most important advisor to the completely ignorant Ministry of Agriculture has made a huge mess of it !!
If it is as many farmers believe here on the forum, then there is no more agricultural entrepreneurship. Strange for a sector that sees itself as a global leader in innovative entrepreneurship. Is this a matter of inferiority or self-underestimation?
Blinkers 22 April 2023
Louis Pascal de Geer wrote:
I always think of what NASA has discovered about the "fertilization" that fine phosphorus-rich sand grains transport by air from the Sahara desert over 5000 km to the Amazon region, which mainly needs phosphorus.
Nature is creative in compensating for local shortages and surpluses and also shows very clearly that this movement cannot be modeled very well. We have to learn from Nature especially when it comes to offsets, and unfortunately I miss this point a lot in the above article.
I would also ask whether the positive influence of the current emissions and precipitation on the Nature Reserves is properly investigated. You can only protect Nature if you can understand Her. Everything is back on track in my opinion.
That is why there is no N problem that the left-wing elite, with Sjoerd in the lead, has talked into itself.

The biggest problem is that there are too many people walking around on this globe, even Midas Dekkers is of this opinion, see article in the Telegraaf.

It would be credit to the left-wing elite with Sigrid and Jesse in the lead to make a statement about this.
Subscriber
Bio + 22 April 2023
blinkers wrote:
Louis Pascal de Geer wrote:
I always think of what NASA has discovered about the "fertilization" that fine phosphorus-rich sand grains transport by air from the Sahara desert over 5000 km to the Amazon region, which mainly needs phosphorus.
Nature is creative in compensating for local shortages and surpluses and also shows very clearly that this movement cannot be modeled very well. We have to learn from Nature especially when it comes to offsets, and unfortunately I miss this point a lot in the above article.
I would also ask whether the positive influence of the current emissions and precipitation on the Nature Reserves is properly investigated. You can only protect Nature if you can understand Her. Everything is back on track in my opinion.
That is why there is no N problem that the left-wing elite, with Sjoerd in the lead, has talked into itself.

The biggest problem is that there are too many people walking around on this globe, even Midas Dekkers is of this opinion, see article in the Telegraaf.

It would be credit to the left-wing elite with Sigrid and Jesse in the lead to make a statement about this.
I'm a leftist. Best blinker. Have you ever wondered which sector will be hit hardest by population decline? Suppose there is an acute 50% shrinkage of the human stock. I think food prices will then go to just above zero. Especially for a food exporting country.
Subscriber
Arie poor branch. 22 April 2023
Typical left wing. Exactly a human shrinkage of 50%, how do you achieve that? Number of atomic bombs? kill? tell me how to achieve that. If you think about it, you know that it would take a few generations for this to happen naturally. You are doing your supporters a disservice with this comment.
Subscriber
CM 22 April 2023
bio+ wrote:
blinkers wrote:
Louis Pascal de Geer wrote:
I always think of what NASA has discovered about the "fertilization" that fine phosphorus-rich sand grains transport by air from the Sahara desert over 5000 km to the Amazon region, which mainly needs phosphorus.
Nature is creative in compensating for local shortages and surpluses and also shows very clearly that this movement cannot be modeled very well. We have to learn from Nature especially when it comes to offsets, and unfortunately I miss this point a lot in the above article.
I would also ask whether the positive influence of the current emissions and precipitation on the Nature Reserves is properly investigated. You can only protect Nature if you can understand Her. Everything is back on track in my opinion.
That is why there is no N problem that the left-wing elite, with Sjoerd in the lead, has talked into itself.

The biggest problem is that there are too many people walking around on this globe, even Midas Dekkers is of this opinion, see article in the Telegraaf.

It would be credit to the left-wing elite with Sigrid and Jesse in the lead to make a statement about this.
I'm a leftist. Best blinker. Have you ever wondered which sector will be hit hardest by population decline? Suppose there is an acute 50% shrinkage of the human stock. I think food prices will then go to just above zero. Especially for a food exporting country.
I would say: immediately do that halving of the human stock. That really solves a lot; almost all problems even with climate, famine, poverty, N etcetera. Great starting point!!!
Subscriber
peter 23 April 2023
Cycling to work every day, ten days holiday in your own country; best to do!
Subscriber
time bomb 23 April 2023
peter wrote:
Cycling to work every day, ten days holiday in your own country; best to do!
It would soon be over. Doesn't have a view of his position. Do people think they are poor, and of course that is not possible.
Blinkers 23 April 2023
bio+ wrote:
blinkers wrote:
Louis Pascal de Geer wrote:
I always think of what NASA has discovered about the "fertilization" that fine phosphorus-rich sand grains transport by air from the Sahara desert over 5000 km to the Amazon region, which mainly needs phosphorus.
Nature is creative in compensating for local shortages and surpluses and also shows very clearly that this movement cannot be modeled very well. We have to learn from Nature especially when it comes to offsets, and unfortunately I miss this point a lot in the above article.
I would also ask whether the positive influence of the current emissions and precipitation on the Nature Reserves is properly investigated. You can only protect Nature if you can understand Her. Everything is back on track in my opinion.
That is why there is no N problem that the left-wing elite, with Sjoerd in the lead, has talked into itself.

The biggest problem is that there are too many people walking around on this globe, even Midas Dekkers is of this opinion, see article in the Telegraaf.

It would be credit to the left-wing elite with Sigrid and Jesse in the lead to make a statement about this.
I'm a leftist. Best blinker. Have you ever wondered which sector will be hit hardest by population decline? Suppose there is an acute 50% shrinkage of the human stock. I think food prices will then go to just above zero. Especially for a food exporting country.
Then we will go back to farming as in the time of Ot and Sien, no more dragging around with food, only regional products on the menu.
No more distant holidays, let alone flying at all.

Isn't this what Sigrid and Jesse want so badly?
Blinkers 23 April 2023
Arie poor branch. wrote:
Typical left wing. Exactly a human shrinkage of 50%, how do you achieve that? Number of atomic bombs? kill? tell me how to achieve that. If you think about it, you know that it would take a few generations for this to happen naturally. You are doing your supporters a disservice with this comment.
Mao and Pol Pot (Cambodia) were already well on their way to achieving this with their absurd ideas.

Subscriber
frog 23 April 2023
blinkers wrote:
bio+ wrote:
blinkers wrote:
Louis Pascal de Geer wrote:
I always think of what NASA has discovered about the "fertilization" that fine phosphorus-rich sand grains transport by air from the Sahara desert over 5000 km to the Amazon region, which mainly needs phosphorus.
Nature is creative in compensating for local shortages and surpluses and also shows very clearly that this movement cannot be modeled very well. We have to learn from Nature especially when it comes to offsets, and unfortunately I miss this point a lot in the above article.
I would also ask whether the positive influence of the current emissions and precipitation on the Nature Reserves is properly investigated. You can only protect Nature if you can understand Her. Everything is back on track in my opinion.
That is why there is no N problem that the left-wing elite, with Sjoerd in the lead, has talked into itself.

The biggest problem is that there are too many people walking around on this globe, even Midas Dekkers is of this opinion, see article in the Telegraaf.

It would be credit to the left-wing elite with Sigrid and Jesse in the lead to make a statement about this.
I'm a leftist. Best blinker. Have you ever wondered which sector will be hit hardest by population decline? Suppose there is an acute 50% shrinkage of the human stock. I think food prices will then go to just above zero. Especially for a food exporting country.
Then we will go back to farming as in the time of Ot and Sien, no more dragging around with food, only regional products on the menu.
No more distant holidays, let alone flying at all.

Isn't this what Sigrid and Jesse want so badly?
sorry but Sigrid and Jesse can't respond right now, they just went on a well-deserved flying holiday during the May holiday.
Bio + 23 April 2023
Arie poor branch. wrote:
Typical left wing. Exactly a human shrinkage of 50%, how do you achieve that? Number of atomic bombs? kill? tell me how to achieve that. If you think about it, you know that it would take a few generations for this to happen naturally. You are doing your supporters a disservice with this comment.
No, it is not at all my wish that there will be shrinkage. I mean to say this: many people think that all this stuff about N is nonsense and that it's better to deal with the real problems, like what Blinker says: the size of the world's population. That's why my response: watch out for what you want. If there is a contraction - whether it takes generations or whether it happens immediately due to a disaster (a cross between covid / ebola / plague) or in between - all of this is very detrimental to the farmers.
Subscriber
peter 23 April 2023
bio+ wrote:
blinkers wrote:
Louis Pascal de Geer wrote:
I always think of what NASA has discovered about the "fertilization" that fine phosphorus-rich sand grains transport by air from the Sahara desert over 5000 km to the Amazon region, which mainly needs phosphorus.
Nature is creative in compensating for local shortages and surpluses and also shows very clearly that this movement cannot be modeled very well. We have to learn from Nature especially when it comes to offsets, and unfortunately I miss this point a lot in the above article.
I would also ask whether the positive influence of the current emissions and precipitation on the Nature Reserves is properly investigated. You can only protect Nature if you can understand Her. Everything is back on track in my opinion.
That is why there is no N problem that the left-wing elite, with Sjoerd in the lead, has talked into itself.

The biggest problem is that there are too many people walking around on this globe, even Midas Dekkers is of this opinion, see article in the Telegraaf.

It would be credit to the left-wing elite with Sigrid and Jesse in the lead to make a statement about this.
I'm a leftist. Best blinker. Have you ever wondered which sector will be hit hardest by population decline? Suppose there is an acute 50% shrinkage of the human stock. I think food prices will then go to just above zero. Especially for a food exporting country.
I think it would be interesting to have the calculation done: which 50% of the human stock do we get rid of, the right or the left half?
Subscriber
CM 23 April 2023
And yet and yet the unbridled growth of the world's population is the biggest problem in this world. And to relate it to the Netherlands, also with N emissions from all those people, housing, climate, integration that does not happen, etc. Even if you get rid of all farmers and livestock, this solves something for a while, but it is a drop in the ocean in the big whole. Population density remains the biggest problem after that, recognize this once and especially the left corner that now thinks it can save things with less cattle. It's really not going to be.
Subscriber
polder boy 23 April 2023
gray hair wrote:
let the government itself run a farm with all their fantasies applied to it, we can calmly see what mess that produces and if not we can perhaps learn something from it
this is already happening in Flevoland.
they call that foundation yard.

never seen such chaos. also leave crops in the ground every year because they don't start harvesting on time.

laughing stock of Flevoland
Blinkers 24 April 2023
CM wrote:
And yet and yet the unbridled growth of the world's population is the biggest problem in this world. And to relate it to the Netherlands, also with N emissions from all those people, housing, climate, integration that does not happen, etc. Even if you get rid of all farmers and livestock, this solves something for a while, but it is a drop in the ocean in the big whole. Population density remains the biggest problem after that, recognize this once and especially the left corner that now thinks it can save things with less cattle. It's really not going to be.
Well said
Subscriber
Jan-Jaap 24 April 2023
What conspiracy thinking in the comments. If this is the thinking level of the peasantry, then the level of animals is higher. Crossing borders.
Subscriber
Louis Pascal deGeer 24 April 2023
In my opinion, left and right are just directions, but they are used by everyone and everyone to put everyone and everything in a political box, and I am now completely done with that. Just as I am also completely done talking about population reduction due to an alleged overpopulation of our planet. The greatest danger to our democracy and freedom is this kind of oversimplified and often wrong statements, together with a degenerating language. Blown off steam?
Yes, maybe, but I think it's necessary, not only for me, but also for the people who want to understand something about What it's all about.
Blinkers 24 April 2023
Jan-Jaap wrote:
What conspiracy thinking in the comments. If this is the thinking level of the peasantry, then the level of animals is higher. Crossing borders.
Can you explain in more detail what conspiracy are you talking about?
transition 24 April 2023
25 billion to reform agriculture! The people, the taxpayers, cannot agree to that. No more growth for agriculture, while the same government would like to add 1 million extra homes. Or is that plan now in the trash. Many hectares of agricultural land disappear every year and that is a shame, because good soil, good climate, etc. The government can make consumers pay taxes for food products depending on whether they are more or less good for the environment. That is not the easiest exercise, but it generates extra income for the community anyway.
Blinkers 25 April 2023
Louis Pascal de Geer wrote:
In my opinion, left and right are just directions, but they are used by everyone and everyone to put everyone and everything in a political box, and I am now completely done with that. Just as I am also completely done talking about population reduction due to an alleged overpopulation of our planet. The greatest danger to our democracy and freedom is this kind of oversimplified and often wrong statements, together with a degenerating language. Blown off steam?
Yes, maybe, but I think it's necessary, not only for me, but also for the people who want to understand something about What it's all about.
You have to tackle the problems at the source and not fight the consequences because then you are already too late.

A sad example are solar panels that are placed here and there in the field that biodiversity is completely destroyed, you hardly hear about it because it is so sustainable.
The same goes for the wind turbines, we still have no idea what the consequences will be for the longer term.
I get the impression that many are talking for their own parish.

Everyone has to decide for themselves whether there are too many people in the world, but it would give a lot of air if the population were to decrease in the long term.


Subscriber
frog 25 April 2023
Louis Pascal de Geer wrote:
In my opinion, left and right are just directions, but they are used by everyone and everyone to put everyone and everything in a political box, and I am now completely done with that. Just as I am also completely done talking about population reduction due to an alleged overpopulation of our planet. The greatest danger to our democracy and freedom is this kind of oversimplified and often wrong statements, together with a degenerating language. Blown off steam?
Yes, maybe, but I think it's necessary, not only for me, but also for the people who want to understand something about What it's all about.
Dear louis you talk about that you are done talking about population reduction due to a supposed overpopulation of our planet, I am done talking about going back to the Ot and Sien time because of a supposed declining nature. I hope that the world's population will shrink naturally, because in my opinion this is the basis of the whole problem.
Subscriber
Arie poor branch. 25 April 2023
Agree Frog, but in addition I think it is also necessary for humanity, so you, me and all of us to drastically change our way of life, such as the use of raw materials, holidays and much more, in order to keep the world livable. Not Ot and Sien, but still.
Subscriber
Louis Pascal deGeer 25 April 2023
Well, that world population is very high, so it is good to write a few lines about it. China and India account for more than half of the world's population and China in particular has long pursued a 1 child per family policy, but has had to backtrack on this because of social pressures caused by an aging population. With us here in Brazil, another 250 million people can be added and so on. If you really work to develop Africa, you can also more than double the population there, Australia, Canada, Mexico. Back to Ot and Sien time, no, but with Ot and Sien in our memory to a new time that can become very beautiful despite all the problems.
Subscriber
Louis Pascal deGeer 25 April 2023
Correction China and India have 2,9 billion people and therefore less than half of the world's population,
Subscriber
Bio + 25 April 2023
Do you know what counts the most? I mean literally by weight. Of all vertebrates, about 15% by weight are wild animals. Something like 25% are humans. And 60% is cattle. That's the real logic of why the "left" wants less cattle.
Subscriber
time bomb 25 April 2023
If you get out, I'll get rid of a cow. Deal?
Subscriber
frog 25 April 2023
bio+ wrote:
Do you know what counts the most? I mean literally by weight. Of all vertebrates, about 15% by weight are wild animals. Something like 25% are humans. And 60% is cattle. That's the real logic of why the "left" wants less cattle.
so all on a diet.
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