Interview Thom van Campen (VVD)
'Leaving farmers in the driver's seat by convincing Brussels'
Thom van Campen (33) has been in the House of Representatives for more than 2,5 years. As a liberal, he himself was never much in favor of the expropriation of farmers. His party is now letting go of that, as well as 2030 as the target date for halving nitrogen emissions.
According to the agricultural spokesperson, the Netherlands must do everything it can to get European politics on board. "The government must be able to convince Brussels that we will not only produce the best food after the Second World War, but that we can also do so in a clean environment."
You were new to Parliament in March 2021. Was it a success or a disappointment?
"I was previously a member of the Zwolle city council and was also a representative, so that was not new. However, the scale is larger and agriculture was a new portfolio for me. It is quite a challenge, but I have always found it honorable and fun. "I hope I can continue to do it after the elections."
What have you been committed to in the field of agriculture?
"What we have seen in recent decades is that we have wanted to give as much space as possible from the liberal vision, but at the same time the ruling on the PAS in 2019 has made it very clear what needs to be done. Time and time again we have seen that we legally cannot make it with the low-emission floor. We have to get started with nitrogen reduction, that is a difficult message, I have always wanted to have a broad toolbox in return."
"It frustrates me immensely that things take so long. As a farmer you want to be sure that you will not be standing in front of the gate again in three years' time, while you have a loan from the bank and the manufacturer has long since run away with the money. That is why we have to "An appropriate assessment will soon be made for the granting of permits for low-emission housing systems. Another motion was recently adopted on this subject (by Van Campen ed.)."
What didn't work?
"I can well imagine that as a farmer you say: I still do not dare to invest in my company. For a year and a half I have constantly said to the minister (Adema ed.): Come on with a 0.0 version of the billable substances balance, a kind of Minas. The cabinet has fallen, but important steps in this area are being taken further."
It was the first time that there were two ministers in the agriculture ministry. VVD Minister Christianne van der Wal for Nature and Nitrogen had a hard time, especially after the presentation of the infamous nitrogen ticket. How do you look back on that?
"Things have not gone well, Remkes has also spoken very pointedly about this. The government has not been consistent over the past ten or twenty years. Then this is the last straw. The PAS detectors; the affair surrounding the phosphate system; that it was like: just expand, until the government said: We will hold you to the reference date. A very strict restructuring has taken place. That is not a basis on which the government shows reliability."
No agricultural agreement has been reached. Was that a disappointment?
"That is really a shame, but the good ideas do not just disappear. We as politicians and as VVD have looked carefully at what the good plans are to achieve goals; no politician gets this on paper better than in practice."
Which proposals have you adopted?
"New revenue models in addition to production, such as the ecosystem, narrowing the gap between agriculture and nature. What I also thought was very important: you can ask for sustainability, but you cannot pass it on to the primary link. All parties within the agri-food sector must contribute."
The VVD is a party that values entrepreneurship. How do farmers remain entrepreneurs?
"Whether it concerns water quality or the maintenance of Natura 2000, the Netherlands has not fully complied with the agreements until we have reached limits and entrepreneurs have found themselves in a pinch. How do you keep entrepreneurs in the driver's seat? By showing Brussels that we also want to invest in Brussels. I have often said to the minister: Fertilizer substitutes, CRISPR-Cas, pulse fishing, pitch those stories and convince Brussels that we will achieve nature goals, but that we need space. Farmers tell me that they can do without a derogation can, as long as they are allowed to use fertilizer substitutes. Make it possible for measurements to be taken at company level, and for management measures to be taken, such as a track. The government must be able to convince Brussels that after the Second World War we will not only produce food as the best, but that we can also do so in a clean environment."
The VVD is now sticking to the nitrogen target for 2035 and is no longer aiming for 2030. What has changed?
"2035 is in the current law. During the recent coalition negotiations, 2030 was chosen to keep in line with the second Remkes report. We hoped to show the judiciary that it was serious, to show that the government could not avoid achieving its goals. and thus be allowed to issue permits. But we have seen legal ruling after ruling that you can only issue permits if you have saved nitrogen. I don't think we should endlessly discuss the year, but put nitrogen reduction into practice. We have seen that pinning down a date is not very helpful to that end. For people, that date felt like a knife to the throat, but we have always said that no one is held to the impossible. I think we should put more energy into the goals stick it out and get started instead of discussing KDWs or a year, those are indicators."
A year ago, a motion was passed in the House of Representatives, of which you were a co-sponsor, to prevent the exchange of ammonia and nitrogen oxides during external netting. That is still possible and that is how Schiphol received its permit. How do you view that?
"I said: There must be strict management and no Wild West negotiations. All parties in the Chamber believed that Schiphol should have a nature permit. At the same time, we have seen that Schiphol itself has taken the initiative to buy up nitrogen space. I don't think that is the case. very bad. I do think that management should be tighter on this. This requires a change in the law, so that is on hold for a while. That space must first be allocated to PAS detectors. Schiphol also does this with the space it has left."
"Exchanging NH3 and NOx is very difficult. If you put a very strict fence around it, you may not yet be able to grant a permit. A seller decides for himself who he sells to, you also have farmers who sell land for housing. a certain degree of freedom in being. It is something else when a company buys NH3 en masse to develop an industrial estate."
The VVD wants to stand up for PAS reporters, but they have still not been legalized...
"On a piecemeal basis, it is not easy. We just want entrepreneurs who have acted in good faith to have the prospect of a permit, if they have registered correctly. We must ensure that money is available and you should not be bound by all kinds of state aid rules. "
A majority in the House, including VVD, wants to move from a deposition to an emissions-driven policy. What about the existing permit?
"If you now have a permit, fortunately you are in good hands. Fortunately, property is still protected in this country, I say as a liberal. The courts will of course continue to assess the situation with regard to the conservation of nature in nature reserves. There should be two tracks you can get started: the nature accounts of the provinces must be in order and farmers should focus on emissions, so that farmers themselves are in the driver's seat."
Property is still protected in this country, you say. You will place maximum emphasis on voluntariness, for example with the current termination arrangements, as stated in the election programme. Is forced buyout still an option?
"As far as we are concerned, not. We know that from a certain distance it is impossible to trace nitrogen to one company, as shown by the 'famous' UvA study. With expropriation you would have to prove conclusively in the court that certain precipitation from a specific company. It is therefore not in the election manifesto. Choose your battles, see if you can buy it for a fair price, then you don't have to use forced instruments. That is always my disagreement with Tjeerd de Groot (D66), but I have also regularly had debates about this with the minister (VVD minister Van der Wal ed.)."
The stopper schemes have been opened, but there is nothing yet for those who stay. Shouldn't those schemes for relocation, extensification and innovation have been launched straight away?
"I am very pleased that the Chamber, from the Party for the Animals to the BBB, has declared the subject not controversial. I understand that we now have to wait for the green light from Brussels. As far as I am concerned, it would rather come today than tomorrow."
The election manifesto also states that you want to stimulate new, sustainable forms of food production. How?
"As far as I'm concerned, that starts with the green light from Brussels for cultured meat. It is incomprehensible that a Dutch company that has invented cultured meat is allowed to market it in Singapore and not in the Netherlands. Furthermore, with CRIPS-Cas you are able to Protecting crops from annoying pests and diseases also saves farmers' wallets. The same applies to fertilizer substitutes. If they are allowed to be used, you will save a huge amount of CO2 and gas consumption."
Do you want to continue the line on agricultural policy in a possible new coalition?
"We simply want to achieve sustainable food production that we are proud of and ensure a good living environment, nature in good condition, clean water and clean air, and work together with the sector to achieve this."
Linda van Eekeres
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