Lodders asks questions

VVD doubts about free trade in phosphate rights

1 December 2017 - Herma van den Pol - 48 comments

Should there be supervision on the trade in phosphate rights? That is the question that Helma Lodders (VVD) poses to Carola Schouten, Minister of Agriculture, Food Quality and Nature (LNV). This is because she fears speculation and fraud.

Schouten announced at the end of November that the system of phosphate rights from 1 January 2018 starts. From that moment on, phosphate can be traded definitively, but there is already plenty of trade in the options on the rights. It has pushed prices up and results in prices around the €8.000 to €8.500 per cow.

Looking critically at trade
Current developments are reason for Lodders to take another critical look at the trade in phosphate rights. She is in favor of free trade, but fears speculative behavior and fraud. This recently also happened in the trade in emission allowances. “Trade must be fair and take place on a level playing field.”

Fear of fraud and speculation

The VVD considers a fair and transparent market to be of great importance to dairy farming. The dairy farmers must thereby be protected against parties that do not have the immediate aim of using the phosphate rights themselves. Supervision and regulation can help prevent speculation, market manipulation and insider trading. European legislation and regulations seem to underlie this.

Phosphate: a financial product
Lodders also asks the minister whether the trade in phosphate rights should be regarded as trade in financial products. If that is the case, the phosphate rights trade would even be supervised by the AFM (Financial Markets Authority) and the DNB (From Nederlandsche Bank) can fall.

According to calculations by Boerenbusiness the current phosphate market is a market with a value of approximately €17 billion. The calculation is based on the current market price paid in pre-trade for these rights. Phosphate production has been determined on the basis of the figures from CBS for 2015 minus 8,3%, the possible discount for non-land-bound dairy farmers. According to current legislation and regulations in the financial markets, this market value is eligible for supervision.

Protection dairy farmer
Lodders emphasizes that the importance, as far as she is concerned, lies in the protection of dairy farmers. "They are already sufficiently exposed to major challenges with the arrival of phosphate rights, so fair and transparent trade should be a precondition for the introduction of these rights."

Enough big challenges already

The trading of phosphate rights by third parties, even before the phosphate rights have been made official, has resulted in questions being put to the House of Representatives. The VVD considers the trading of phosphate rights, even before the actual introduction, a risk of speculative behaviour. Here, fair trade and a level playing field can be lost sight of and the bill will ultimately be paid by the individual farmer.

Intervention must be possible
She asks the minister whether she is prepared to map out the financial size of the market, the market participants and the turnover rate. She also asks for the possibility of supervision to be indicated, so that there is more transparency and intervention can be taken in the event of excessive transactions or market-disrupting effects.

The questions asked by VVD can be found here

Do you have a tip, suggestion or comment regarding this article? Let us know

Herman van den Pol

Herma van den Pol has been with us since 2011 Boerenbusiness and has developed over the years into a market expert Milk & Feed. In addition, she can be seen weekly in the market flash about the dairy market.
Comments
48 comments
I want to grow 1 December 2017
This is a response to this article:
[url=http://www.boerenbusiness.nl/mest/artikel/10876755/vvd-twijfelt-over-vrij-handel-in-phosphaterechten][/url]
Politicians finally understand that we must also be protected. I am already being circled by brokers who want to buy and sell my phosphate rights. This is all based on speculation. They have no copper at all

We all know that a few have gotten very rich in the past from quota trading through speculation and opaque trading. And that's money that should stay in the sector
Tine 1 December 2017
Agree. So make it non-tradable and can only be sold to RVO for a fixed fee.
What then comes in can be distributed evenly among all livestock farmers by RVO by granting extra phosphate rights. It costs no one money and it is fair.
Subscriber
dirk 1 December 2017
And when trading, keep in possession for at least 2 years, to prevent through trading
Ton Westgeest 1 December 2017
As the innkeeper is, he trusts his guests
Subscriber
Dirk 1 December 2017
Make it non-tradable, Tine? Giving away for nothing or little? Then we will continue to milk ourselves. Then you don't grow or grow a little less fast.
We'll see what it will be after 01-01-2018.
Paul 1 December 2017
Vvd is right for free trade?
Subscriber
Dirk 1 December 2017
They do look like SP questions. But I don't really see why speculators can get away with the big money. Except for the usual fee for any transfer mediation. That was at mq. also. Is that so bad? Still a matter of supply and demand. If one can hand in things to the government for a fixed price, it will become a sticky trade.
They read 1 December 2017
So you see, liberals cannot do without some form of market protection.
stopper 1 December 2017
Dirk himself is certainly a real estate agent who has blown the phosphate rights for 50 euros out of a few cramped farmers and is now trying to sell them on for 200
Pete 1 December 2017
The question then is whether there is still time not to liberalize trade? Or is this a political game of the VVD. It is after all 5 to twelve. In itself a good idea. But is it realistic?
H nijborg 1 December 2017
We at XXXXXXXXXXXXX brokers have also signaled this and
......... rest has been removed for advertising!
anton 1 December 2017
buy phosphate rights only offer about 2700 kg
excl 1 December 2017
Why doesn't LTO come up with that, they are there for our interest after all. They should have addressed this, together with the dairy, at a much earlier stage. They are there, know that it happened (and happened in the mq era) but apparently don't mind that a lot of money from the sector goes to third parties and we are left with a much too high cost price.

Curious what the LTO/ZLTO thinks of this plan.
poultry farmer 1 December 2017
See poultry rights trading
20 euros per right doesn't seem like anything
Jan Bernards 1 December 2017
You should not be surprised that phosphate rights have a value that smart people try to earn something from.
If you want to avoid that, you don't have to enter them. If there is then too much phosphate, it will automatically have a negative value and it is worth developing reduction or processing techniques. Wouldn't that be better for the environment and also for employment?
Peasant WomanDivaB 1 December 2017
Hmmmm...a proposal from the VVD that completely goes against their own principles.... what's the catch?! the viper in the grass? the profit?
Why? The pillars they stand on maybe..
1) the mouth full of market forces but now suddenly not?!
2) free trade, but the agrier is suddenly the difficult student.... do we have to protect?
3) supply and demand or rich gets richer and poor gets poorer... profit for those who want to grow (and thus apparently possess the liquid assets) and squeeze the stoppers (usually under pressure from the market and bank)???
In short, want to sit in the front row for a dime...?? †
And again the largest lobby group LTO is failing and it is a tame follower instead of an influencer and policy maker.
andre vw 1 December 2017
The VVD would do well to promote a fair price for products. Now they are certainly afraid that the retail sector (VVDs) will have to pay extra for our products.
If Wilders hears this, he can file a report again !!!!!!!!!!
milks 1 December 2017
it is good to think about how you can obtain fair pricing for phosphate rights. and if fair means they're expensive, that's fine. And if that means they're cheap, that's fine too. there are plenty of examples of markets in which people trade with no intention of achieving fair pricing. then you have to protect the participants from that. that has nothing to do with free market forces, but more with a fair and transparent playing field. maybe manure prices or pig straights would also be worth all the money if someone would supervise a fair course of action.........
farmer 1 December 2017
not a bad idea. it would save our industry a lot of commission if we could sell directly to each other. that in turn cuts the cost. I've got enough people eating me already.
cheese board 1 December 2017
why is lto not responding to this?
john 1 December 2017
somewhere tells me that it is much healthier to link the phosphate rights to membership cards at the dairy.
John Cees 1 December 2017
Helma may well be right .
Phosphate rights are a nice speculative asset
Bargain 1 December 2017
@ Anton what do you want for those 2700 kg?
Please provide a price per net kg.
Subscriber
dirk 1 December 2017
Stopper, you're wrong.
I may have 6000 rights for sale at some point.
Depends on how it will all develop after 01-01-2018, also fiscally
cu voter 2 December 2017
compliments to miss lodders. straight is straight and crooked is crooked. Opportunity makes the thief that has been proved by the past. a market master who sets the rules and oversees will be needed in this dark world where greed and money rules
durk 2 December 2017
Please let the free market do its job.

There is no escape for extra phosphate production in 2018 via a (super) levy. Exceeding it is also an economic offense and that is why the prices for phosphate rights will be sky-high at the end of 2018 and I would like to take advantage of that.
AJoet Twente 2 December 2017
First of all I didn't know that the VVD also had a communist branch,
Mark Rutte beware this will cost you votes.
Whatever you think of the price, the market is always right.
Look at the milk price last year e 0,25 and now above e 0,40.
Yet the dairies are not called speculators by Lodders?
If Lodders wants to do something for the dairy farmers, let them see to it that they
can lease a small percentage of phosphate rights annually, without discount.
To be good at the end of the year .
Hendriksen 2 December 2017
Isn't there enough transparency in the current free phosphate market?
You will find supply and demand on several sites.
Today you can see that there is supply at 200 euros and demand at 295 euros.
Supply and demand determines the market here.
Hendriksen 2 December 2017
I mean of course 195 euros.
no sense 2 December 2017
if there is supply at 200 why is there demand at 295?
no sense 2 December 2017
but one more question : who will bid 195 ? a farmer , a speculator ?
Hendriksen 2 December 2017
Ff search on the largest supply and demand site.
afm 2 December 2017
why do you think the AFM was founded?
Hendriksen 2 December 2017
@no sense.
Does it matter who buys the rights?
As long as they pay.
By the way: if you start trading in a market monitored by the AFM, nothing will change. Even then there will be speculators who buy and sell.
durk 2 December 2017
@Hendriksen
Buying now at 200 euros and selling in exactly one year for 400 euros, isn't that normal trade in a scarce production right?
Hendriksen 2 December 2017
@Durk
Maybe in a year the market will be at 100.
Do you know it?
expatriate 2 December 2017
This also happens in other countries. central trading platform controlled by the government.
tenant 2 December 2017
the public registrations of the lease with the rvob also go through an internet platform where the government sets the condition
Marco 2 December 2017
supply and demand is always a fair price if you think they are too expensive don't buy them
red bomb 2 December 2017
but if you want to buy and a broker has just bought them away in front of you and then offer them 5 euros more expensive .......... then that increases my cost price, money disappears from the sector and there are fictitiously more buyers than there really are, so that the real price might only have been the whole one
scarf 2 December 2017
fc will probably start with a standstill in 2018, why buy expensive phosphate rights if you can't use them anyway
Klaas 2 December 2017
about the public tenders for leases, mrs. Lodders last year that the tax payer is entitled to a maximum return on the land leased by the state. Now she wants to protect dairy farming ??
connoisseur 2 December 2017
that's comparing apples to oranges. you must be one of those traders who wants to earn money on our backs from the phosphate rights. with the public registration of the land you do business with 1 counterparty and completely voluntarily. With regard to the phosphate rights, we will do business among farmers and we do not need interference from third parties that disrupt and manipulate the market
doubtful 3 December 2017
Throw it loose together with the pig rights see plan Vogelaar
then part of the manure surplus will be tackled
strongest survive then
wilma 3 December 2017
phosphate rights as of 1-1-2018 a fact, total value in the Ned. dairy farming 13 billion, "support for young farmers" Minister Schouten?
Peter 3 December 2017
Always ensure that no more than 1% profit is made on the sale
pig farmer 4 December 2017
I do want to sell 10% of my phosphate rights to a cattle farmer for 200 euros/kg
then produce for better life is win win
trader 4 December 2017
redbomb wrote:
but if you want to buy and a broker has just bought them away in front of you and then offer them 5 euros more expensive .......... then that increases my cost price, money disappears from the sector and there are fictitiously more buyers than there really are, so that the real price might only have been the whole one


A broker does not buy rights because then he is also discounted by 10%. He only mediates between 2 parties and charges a small commission for that.
Ton Westgeest 4 December 2017
Have you seen "De cesspool Netherlands" at all tonight?
https://youtu.be/hpHnN5nwyFk

Nelie Smit-Kroes, Opstelten, Rutte and more VVD celebrities ........ What a pervert! And now a new VVD celebrity wants to protect us.......
You don't believe that anymore!
You can no longer respond.

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