'Production rights must become interchangeable'

Hendriksen 7 September 2017

This is a response to this article:
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That lady thinks:
Come on let me say something.

of platings 7 September 2017

They should have done this a long time ago, just win-win for everyone.
Cow farmers are cheaper and the pig farmer gets a little more, how simple can it be.

piet 7 September 2017

annie they should make a minister, great idea about those rights

Hendriksen 7 September 2017

And the pig farmer who wants to expand?
Who can help pay for the debacle caused by the cattle farmers?

The pig/poultry sector has long since solved its own manure problem.
And most cattle farmers have also obediently cleaned up 160.000 cows this year.
(Despite their big mouth on all kinds of forums.)
All sectors will therefore meet the standard by the end of this year.
Then why exchange?

Subscriber

Ronnie 7 September 2017

To the environment, phosphate is just phosphate.
Why should I not be allowed to convert my own rights, it is my property right.
It's ridiculous when other entrepreneurs are against it. Let them keep their own affairs in order.

Subscriber

Ronnie 7 September 2017

POV does not want to make the rights interchangeable in order to protect the (pig) market.
In my opinion, this itself is prohibited, cartel formation. Can lead to a nice fine in the long run.

January 10 7 September 2017

Exchange should have been arranged long ago. Every left-wing party has a pig population reduction in their election manifesto. Now the pig farmers can arrange it themselves. Otherwise it goes the way of the mink farmers.

xx 7 September 2017

We've talked about it so many times.
About 10% of all pig rights are interchangeable and labelled.
The cattle sector now has far too many unused places with all those new barns. And there are plenty of pig farmers with outdated stables who would like to sell the rights for a big price. Of course this has a price-increasing effect for the other pig rights, but that is also only positive for the stayers.
Suppose all pig rights were worth zero euros, then a lot of capital has evaporated.

of platings 7 September 2017

Hendrik, you don't understand much, you only think about yourself again, and why do some pig farmers always want more. Beulink also went under, was never satisfied. The big pig farmers may or may not survive.......

John 7 September 2017

First look at what the manure market would look like without all that cow manure. If the manure sales become cheaper with less supply, the returns on pig farming will also increase and the pig rights will also be worth more. In addition, there are also whole dairy barns that have almost reached the end of their life cycle. Those owners are also happy to sell the cow rights if everything goes ahead. Let the pig rights be what they are: pig rights

koentje 7 September 2017

If you have to believe all the reports, the number of pig farmers will fall rapidly from just under 5000 to barely 2000.
That means the majority will stop.
It's for exchange. from a democratic point of view it will therefore have to be done.
pov lto and nvv have different interests.
For some it's never enough

Ed 7 September 2017

Annie is absolutely right Make a part, for example, 50 percent exchangeable for a certain time for the quitters and for the stayers the quitters Can stop responsibly and the stayers can best wait a while before buying pig rights they can also Rent by the way, the smart guys have had enough for a long time bought rights they don't cost much after all
The quitters can also demolish their stables and pay debts. After all, this will never work with the proceeds of the ROk Scheme.

Hertha 7 September 2017

Totally agree with Annie.
Let the pig farmer decide for himself how he/she trades his acquired rights.
We also had to buy the rights dearly at the time.

john 7 September 2017

First get everything back to normal and rake in that derogation then see further. If the processed manure will soon be placed on top of the phosphate ceiling and the thin fraction can be used as pig manure as a substitute for fertilizer, we will no longer have to worry about those rights.

kees 7 September 2017

and hendriksen thought:
come on, I'll just say something
Annie is absolutely right

pig farmer 7 September 2017

Annie is absolutely right, the doubters and stoppers are bought off with a pittance so that the mega farmers become even bigger based on pinched stoppers
but think and know from multiple contacts with (national) politics that there are many relatives for it, so it can possibly be introduced with the new cabinet because Geurts is also not opposed to making exchanges possible and left-wing parties already soveso

curly tail 7 September 2017

Many years ago pig rights were cut generically. At the time, the pig farmers were very eager to buy cattle phosphate to convert it into pig rights. There was no discussion about that at the time. Cattle phosphate had to stay with cattle. Pig farmers had to solve their own "problem". Now, many years later, the livestock farmers are asking for pig rights in order to convert them into cattle phosphate rights. It seems logical to me that this is also not cooperated. Even now, each sector is solving its own "problem".

pig farmer 7 September 2017

realistic calculation ratio pigs right 1 to 10
current price of phosphate right also according to an earlier interview on BB approx. 200-225 euros per kg P.
between 40 to 50 kg P per cow about 8000-11000 euros
then approx. 800-1100 euros for 1 pig right
will have a price-depressing effect if pig rights are added to the phosphate rights market, but then
many times higher than the current price of 75-100 euros alms
but a good investment for the stayers, they were allowed after purchase for 75-100
going to sell them myself in a while if exchange still takes place where
they agree of course

john 8 September 2017

I would rather cut the pig rights 10% generically than sell 10% to the dairy farm.. just less manure pays for itself.

Subscriber

curly tail 8 September 2017

Stop talking about that exchange and let the market do its job.
Cattle farmers can easily pay a lot of money because they earn well and for a lot of money there are also plenty of dairy farmers who want to help the big boys move forward by stopping and selling.

piet 8 September 2017

exchanging is good for every farmer, there will be fewer pigs and more cows, the pig farmers who want to stop get a decent price for the rights, the cow farmers can also expand for reasonable prices, win win situation.

john 8 September 2017

why is it better for everyone if there are fewer pigs and more cows? After all, the manure production remains the same.

curly tail 8 September 2017

Yeah, I don't quite understand that reasoning either. I think Piet means: it is better for me if rights can be exchanged...A cow farmer who stops has besides rights also hectares of land for sale. That is only win-win (-win).

happy piglet 8 September 2017

curlytail wrote:

Yeah, I don't quite understand that reasoning either. I think Piet means: it is better for me if rights can be exchanged...A cow farmer who stops has besides rights also hectares of land for sale. That is only win-win (-win).

Why does a stopper have to be fattened, those who continue to produce cheap food that benefits everyone. The pig market has always been free when there is a lot to earn, the rights become more expensive. The phosphate rights are expensive, so there will be a lot to earn from the milk, that's what you call a free market, it takes some getting used to for the cow farmer

Bart Jan 8 September 2017

To get rid of the nagging of the POV members, you can keep it very simple. All POV members are not allowed to exchange, the non-POV members are free to do what they want with their OWN rights... Oh or are there not enough rights at all among POV members and they are from leasing because otherwise their business plan no longer to straighten out. Nice basis and success in the future people with your company. Was it your own entrepreneurial choice then?

The POV further outlines that Annie is only about the stoppers, well if one reads the Blog it also says that she also means that stayers can innovate by, for example, selling part of the rights and making barn adjustments there and with fewer pigs earn more in concepts. lower financing, no more asbestos on the roof, less particulate matter, more animal welfare, etc., politics in The Hague should sound like music to the ears.

Subscriber

curly tail 8 September 2017

Bart Jan, you can also say:
Oh well, the large cow farmers don't have enough phosphate rights and they can only buy them if pig rights become interchangeable, because otherwise they can no longer straighten their business plan. A good basis and success in the future with your company. Was your own entrepreneurial choice then......

pig farmer 8 September 2017

I've been doubting for a while whether or not to remain a member of the association of large pig farmers or not, but with the above I think I will cancel my membership.
With happy piglet I would like to point out why the stayers may then buy the stoppers for an apple and an egg, and if you as a pig farmer adhere to the free market, why not adhere to the phosphate market as a free market.
But everyone talks in their own interest that is now 1x like people, but would find it wry if you later find out you have been fooled and the buyers of now make a lot of money for the reason they are now criticizing

rene 8 September 2017

the large pig farmers are in charge of the pov and they do not want an exchange of rights the family businesses are only there because of the number of members

rene 8 September 2017

manure processing had to be done to get the manure sales cheaper it has only become more expensive since then also an idea of the former nvv/pov

pig farmer 8 September 2017

But the club is getting smaller and smaller, and how long can they still sell their interests as a majority is the question.
Certainly if environmental clubs are aware of how they can get more cows and fewer pigs, which is all a bit easier from a social point of view.
Also easier for the government, one sector is helping with the remediation
from the other.
What is the general interest that the Netherlands wants, that will increasingly play a role in what will happen in the future with or without cooperation
of the POV/NVV/LTO people.
Due to the cleaner air ruling, much more will happen alone, which will not be easy for agriculture, especially the intensive.
And the latest requirements of the NVWA for a better indoor climate will also put the air scrubber in a different light, not to mention the fire risk of the air scrubber, which makes them less accepted.
In that case, a warmer remediation might help some of them not to have to meet all these requirements.

Subscriber

He 8 September 2017

Self pig farmer with perspective and scale. I see conversion of allowances of approx. 20% as an opportunity. A lot of money is freed up for further innovation.
Fewer pigs but more yield. For stoppers there is real money instead of the alms of the set up pov scheme. Whoever participates in this will be forced by the bank. Anyone who participates in this will definitely go up the beet bridge, so pay attention.

bacon steak 8 September 2017

john wrote:

I would rather cut the pig rights 10% generically than sell 10% to the dairy farm.. just less manure pays for itself.

that first 10% discount has done very little good, I'd rather opt for a nice compensation than have DenHaag steal my sandwich again, that last 10% is just what I can get by

Gerard 8 September 2017

Just a little patience and the POV board will be refreshed. Now a few big caterpillars-never-enough rule mega corporations. The front lady reacts fiercely to a CDA opinion, she will never personally attack her VVD friend. Close-minded attitude and unsustainable. There are plenty of options to explore to make temporary exchanges possible up to a maximum percentage. Will be a big win/win. In addition, large structurally leasing companies should stop immediately, they are not and will not be viable, they only get excited about numbers for the stage.

curly tail 8 September 2017

First and foremost: I am against exchanging for the aforementioned refenen. I read all kinds of comments here from people who are very good with stoppers (because they are stoppers themselves?). Then I would like to propose that if we do start exchanging, we will compensate the pig farmers who have sold their rights in the past 3 years with the added value of the rights. Because why should a stopper in 2018, for example, receive 5 times as much as a stopper in 2017?

john 9 September 2017

environmental clubs generally want less cattle, so no more cows either. The dairy farm now has a problem and has to cook in its own juice before the rest gets involved. In the dairy farming sector, a sustainability step can now be made because the large modern companies are buying up the rights of farmers with old worn-out stables who no longer want to invest.

kees 9 September 2017

curlytail wrote:

First and foremost: I am against exchanging for the aforementioned refenen. I read all kinds of comments here from people who are very good with stoppers (because they are stoppers themselves?). Then I would like to propose that if we do start exchanging, we will compensate the pig farmers who have sold their rights in the past 3 years with the added value of the rights. Because why should a stopper in 2018, for example, receive 5 times as much as a stopper in 2017?

ha, ha, yes, I still know a few

pig farmer 9 September 2017

It is crazy for words that in fact a small hard core continues to reject it while there are many more proponents for exchange of rights.

Subscriber

Ronnie 9 September 2017

Finally, good money can be released instead of begging at the (rabo) bank. Every pig farmer who stops but also stays will benefit.
Too bad they can't count at POV. The ROK scheme devised (in my opinion, RUK) is the greatest example of this.

grunt 9 September 2017

let the dairy farmers solve their own problems, this should not be at the expense of the growing pig farmers.

Frans 9 September 2017

If you want to grow, just buy a location. Would it have been better to put the money into law instead of more tails and megalomania.

pig farmer 9 September 2017

let me also decide about my own property, then you can decide for yourself what you want with your property (rights)

Bert 11 September 2017

So the POV also knows where it stands, given the reactions.

pig farmer 11 September 2017

if they just listen Bert

john 11 September 2017

@French,

if you want to grow buy your location but you just said..

Now it is the case that those rights are pretty worthless to financiers, a location consists of animal stables and rights.. If more money has to be spent on rights, it becomes more difficult to buy the location and therefore also sell it and that is precisely the problem . In addition to a group of farmers with a stall behind the house or a sideline, there are also many family businesses and larger entrepreneurs with common locations. To ensure that no hot air has to be financed, the prices of the rights should remain as low as possible. With the introduction of the animal rights system, the sector has already suffered a lot, that does not have to be done again!

curly tail 11 September 2017

Production rights are created to limit production, not to serve as a pension. Hence there is no reason to exchange the rights.

bacon steak 12 September 2017

knorrie wrote:

let the dairy farmers solve their own problems, this should not be at the expense of the growing pig farmers.

forget about growing in Brabant

Bert 12 September 2017

@krulstaart You limit/shrink pig farming through exchange..

curly tail 12 September 2017

@Bert and through exchange you increase cattle farming. The same amount of phosphate and more nitrogen. Why do you think phosphate rights were created?

hans 12 September 2017

Well curly tail, rights have not been created to lease, in fact that still has to be done with purchase/sale transactions. The structural leasers scream bloody murder, maybe add a little less tails and just buy rights. Advocates making rights exclusive to pig farmers and not to centers for the elderly and possibly governments and Wakker Dier in the future.

Theo 01 12 September 2017

Just exchange and skim off a certain percentage.
Pig farming will not win with technical solutions.
Little social support.
Fix it yourself before the politicians do!!!

xx 12 September 2017

Creaming is not necessary at all.
As long as we stay below the phosphate ceiling of 175 million kg.
If the pigs surrender 10%, they can nicely fill up the generic discount with the cattle.

curly tail 13 September 2017

@Hans have I written somewhere that I am in favor of leasing? That was not the intention! What I mean to say is that livestock farmers are now talking nice about that a higher selling price of pig rights is good for pig farming, but they mean that more supply of phosphate rights is more beneficial for livestock farming. Just say that and cut the crap!

pig farmer 15 September 2017

Research by the Farm shows that the sector is divided, half in favor and half against, which I object to now for an apple and an egg buying up rights and passing through channels to the growers of today, who will probably want to use in x number of years in order to be able to clean yourself warm.
In addition, society (Nature & Environment, etc.) wants to reduce the numbers of animals and
this will continue increasingly, the pressure is also increasing from climate policy, for example, as well as the latest NVWA requirements for the indoor climate in sheds, as a result of which air scrubbers are increasingly falling out of favor to use NH3 particulate matter from the indoor climate. and the like, which is also better for the one who stays in the stables (Farmers and Animals)
Think that dairy farming is viewed most positively from a social point of view (still), so these interests are increasingly defended in relation to the intensive sectors.
And exchange works the easiest and most convenient, and does not cost the government itself any money, which they can better use for the renovation of buildings and the like.

pig farmer 70 15 September 2017

Makes me curious how democratic the POV is.
If they ignore this result, they have already lost a lot of feeling with the supporters.

Subscriber

He 15 September 2017

POV handles other people's property rights very easily. Actually too outrageous for words.
But it is remarkable that the Christen Unie is not yet ready for separation.
Then they'd better delete "I won't steal" from their 10 commandments.

petepilot 15 September 2017

do not exchange pig rights

is bad for the environment
cattle manure cannot be exported
so with every kilo of conversion there is 0.5 more surplus phosphate
and more ammonia emissions because more cows walk outside
and cattle farmers do not have green label stables
that achieve an 85% reduction
in short, solve your own problems
of spring more cows and the milk
25 cent
now 160000 cows gone
milk 45 cents

strength for the losers

Doubt 15 September 2017

If you look realistically how can you deny this to the stopping or doubting farmer after seeing previously published calculations with this article.
While they can buy it for an apple and egg from the POV B ........
I saw an article from Pig farmer, that's quite different from now

realistic calculation ratio pigs right 1 to 10
current price of phosphate right also according to an earlier interview on BB approx. 200-225 euros per kg P.
between 40 to 50 kg P per cow about 8000-11000 euros
then approx. 800-1100 euros for 1 pig right
will have a price-depressing effect if pig rights are added to the phosphate rights market, but then
many times higher than the current price of 75-100 euros alms
but a good investment for the stayers, they were allowed after purchase for 75-100
going to sell them myself in a while if exchange still takes place where
they agree of course

from the mountain 19 September 2017

I think phosphate is just phosphate and there is nothing against exchange
how else can you explain to someone with a mixed farm yes you want to expand in the cows you have to buy expensive rights for this and for your pig rights you get a pittance
the pov should also listen to the majority and not just to the big boys maybe they are even better off with fewer pigs in the Netherlands which society seems to want more and more
or would we rather have a cold remediation in a few years

Subscriber

Ronnie 19 September 2017

The POV has not made itself credible with the ROK scheme. Exchange is a very good way for a part of pig farmers who would like to stop in the short term. Why doesn't the POV grant them this?

john 20 September 2017

pigs hardly produce methane gas. No more cows come to control this. phosphate is measured because this substance does not evaporate. We have to accept that there will be no separation to keep the problem under control.

January 10 20 September 2017

I think John is quite dependent on lease rights.
If the POV doesn't go for a partial exchange (which is what half the pig farmers want). Are they completely unbelievable?

john 20 September 2017

I am not dependent on Lease Rights. But when I see the amount of money that has flowed into the purchase of rights in recent years, I can think of many investments that are more sustainable than a ceiling. I am also thinking of the sale of my company. 3000 rights a 400 euros that cannot be financed makes selling a lot more difficult.

john 20 September 2017

Suppose dairy farming is allowed to take over pig rights but methane production is not allowed to increase, how many pig rights must they take over to keep an extra cow?

Subscriber

ronnier 20 September 2017

john wrote:

Suppose dairy farming is allowed to take over pig rights but methane production is not allowed to increase, how many pig rights must they take over to keep an extra cow?

So where do you stay with all that grass, according to experts you should not only measure the emissions, but the total picture. Then "the pollution" is not so bad.

xx 20 September 2017

Look, you shouldn't have any illusions that those pig rights will still be worth 10 euros in 400 years.
This is a temporary effect, but you can use the extra value of that 10% that becomes exchangeable and the extra value of those other pig rights to make your company sustainable. I would have thought that 90% of pig farmers would be in favour.

Subscriber

Ronnie 20 September 2017

For limited convertibility, imagine 15%-20% is certainly 90% of the pig farmers. The other 10% cannot count.

Subscriber

curly tail 20 September 2017

If you keep 10% less pigs, the cost price of a pig is up to 10% higher. So this is not interesting. I think that 10% is correct. You have to calculate like a pig farmer: that stable must be full! Spread the costs over as many animals as possible. Many cow farmers had a completely different view on this in the past and now find themselves with half-empty stables that they want to fill with cheap pig rights. If you think it is possible not to fully utilize your barn, then it might be better not to buy phosphate rights and keep fewer cows.

Subscriber

Ronnie 20 September 2017

If the stayers are correct, the stable must be full. But if you sell 10% of your rights, which is exchangeable for dairy cattle. With some of this money you will buy "normal pig rights" again from a full stopper. These will have increased in price a bit, but never extremely.
Only entrepreneurs with huge growth plans may be at a disadvantage.
Even that I doubt.
A part will then also switch to a meter of space, which also gives a surplus.

down below 21 September 2017

Half of pig farmers are in favour. The other half against. Is it really that black and white?
I think every rational thinking pig farmer is for it! Why? Suppose the rights do become those 400 euros, then you are a thief of your own wallet if you don't sell them.
In addition, there is talk as if every pig farmer HAS to buy the rights in the past, that's where the fallacy lies. I dare say that most of us have obtained at least half of our rights free of charge.

Yes for the full throttle farmers it will be annoying, they now have to move their right foot to the left. But in the event of a temporary separation, they can switch back to their current mode after six months.

@Krulstaart: "You have to calculate like a pig farmer: that stable has to be full! Spread the costs over as many animals as possible." Doesn't every next step in the periphery think exactly like that?

Yes, they do, but I don't hear much about this. They should be more (openly) concerned about decimating a sector. It makes little difference to the individual pig farmer. (we are used to being cut and shaved ;) )

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'Production rights must become interchangeable'

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or mail to supportboerenbusiness. Nl

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What do the current
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